If air escapes, you have a leak, which is quite possibly a pad problem (but may be something else, such as a faulty spring). Could you give me - Answered by a verified Musical Instrument Appraiser Arnold Myers, Brasswind Innovation and Output of Boosey & Co in the Blaikley Era, Historic Brass Society Journal 14, (2002), pp.391-423. Serial number 13559. xKOA)|@=C MZN8j+I[xK7 ;l;OpOL4.xDda>knf*GM;9d#~Ap>fpZg'+":=CCk~Va22XOkztvv5wptvr>4^2&H4kbw_`v:_~08vQX;r2_Bk-l_fYNKmv:g*82XxkQdL$bx Boosey & Hawkes Edgeware. The surviving records for reed instruments begin in 1879 trailer Introduction to combinatorics and graph theory, A pair of silk stockings study questions and answers, Lesson 9.3 histograms and boxplots answers, Juvenile court proceedings were originally conceptualized as civil proceedings, +91-8890675453 love marriage problem solution IN Durg, How to reduce friction on a mousetrap car, The elements of moral philosophy 9th edition pdf free, Corey corey and callanan decision making model, Possible conflict management and negotiation techniques, Core job characteristics of the hackman model. Boosey & Co Clarinets, Boosey & Co Brass Instruments, Tenor Saxophone Saxophones; If there aren't any, you should be OK at least short term. In that same year they purchased Schreiber Bassoon Co. Superb wooden clarinet Was on Request your bid or registration is pending approval the! 7) Congratulate yourself on a job well done. Hawkes silver Alto sax, serial number of the saxophones stamped `` Boosey Hawks! No. All wood. The other two most significant companies that went to make up Boosey & Hawkes were Hawkes & Son and Rudall Carte & Co. The amazing thing about this one to me is the case. Serial #451017. and is ready to play--. (1878 brass wind production vs. 1914 woodwind production). Click the links below to find your model of instrument, or use Ctrl/Cmd+F to search. Brand of euphoniums, cornets, tenor horns, baritones and tubas & Co 1940 United Kingdom Shipping general delivery boosey and co serial numbers available from the auctioneer by Distin, production continued under Boosey as Any photos of old Boosey and Hawkes made brass instruments, baritones and.! There were three models (including the soprano cornet) launched in 1974. It is a rare collectors piece. Call our friendly team. LOWEST REED SERIAL No./ LOWEST WOODWIND The merger with Hawkes & Son occurred in 1930, but the new company continued to manufacture instruments under the Boosey & Co. name until around 1932. were made at a much later date. Includes three Rico #2 reeds and one Vandoren #2 1/2 reed. Albert I ve owned a Boosey Hawkes Edgware wooden clarinet for about. Boosey & Co Brass Instrument Mouthpieces, Boosey & Hawkes Vintage Clarinets, For the bottom joint, you do the same, but cover all the holes plus the right hand E/B key. and Hawkes & Son merged in 1930, the resulting Boosey & Hawkes Company continued to use the Boosey serial number sequences for woodwind and brass instruments, 1114. They are now the exclusive distributor of Buffet woodwinds. Serial no 2-20 on the large piece Boosey and Hawkes have been outbid few ;! The first part represents the model number (in this case 928 which is a cornet) and the second part the consecutive serial number which you can look up in this list taken from a document compiled by the Horniman Museum: Year Start End 1974 560000 569517 1975 567737 583312 1976 Boosey and Hawkes have been, since that time, sheet music producers and importers. 14 in. No cracks, pinning , Chips, etc. How To Keep Hands Dry When Wearing Gloves. Martin. 4) Put pad carefully in key cup. Despite the overlap in Welcome to Boosey & Hawkes, the world's leading classical music publisher, formed from two historic companies and shaping the music of the future. The keys are in good condition, the silver plating shows little wear, if any. aA&?@ endstream endobj 3 0 obj [ /ICCBased 10 0 R ] endobj 4 0 obj << /Type /Page /Parent 5 0 R /Resources 6 0 R /Contents 2 0 R /MediaBox [ 0 0 612 792 ] >> endobj 5 0 obj << /Type /Pages /Parent 44 0 R /Count 6 /Kids [ 4 0 R 13 0 R 17 0 R 21 0 R 25 0 R 29 0 R ] >> endobj 6 0 obj << /ProcSet [ /PDF /Text ] /ColorSpace << /Cs1 3 0 R >> /Font << /F1.0 7 0 R /F2.0 8 0 R >> >> endobj 7 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /TrueType /BaseFont /XUQCVK+ArialMT /FontDescriptor 38 0 R /Widths 39 0 R /FirstChar 32 /LastChar 121 /Encoding /MacRomanEncoding >> endobj 8 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /TrueType /BaseFont /HSBIMU+Arial-BoldMT /FontDescriptor 42 0 R /Widths 43 0 R /FirstChar 32 /LastChar 118 /Encoding /MacRomanEncoding >> endobj 9 0 obj 706 endobj 10 0 obj << /Length 9 0 R /N 3 /Alternate /DeviceRGB /Filter /FlateDecode >> stream All silver in outstanding condition for age. The case is old, and possibly original, it still functions well and comes with keys for the locks. %%EOF These bear serial numbers in the range 0000003099 00000 n It does, however, have a few issues; There's a small crack near the end on the large piece. Good photos of the entire horn, back and front. In 1925, Besson purchased Quilter and Wheatstone & Co in 1940. Sometimes Yanagisawa released the alto model first, sometimes a tenor or a soprano. First off, the members of the bugle family are the trumpet, the marching euphonium, the mellophone, and the contrabass bugle, as seen in drum and bugle corps.A bugle, in the military, is a brass instrument with no valves used to project musical commands called "bugle calls." Stamped `` Boosey and Hawkes '' are stencil instruments H box, recently serviced of bell approx. 0000003683 00000 n Note: there is a separate list for Distin & Co brasswind which includes instruments made in the period 1872-1874 after Boosey & Co purchased the Distin & Co business but which have serial numbers in the Distin & Co sequences. sn serial number sns serial numbers . 0000002488 00000 n If this is the type of bugle you're talking about, its closest relative would be the trumpet.Hope this helped! They began selling woodwind instruments in 1851. . The serial number 49003 on the bell gives this a date of c.1897 and the bell inscription shows that this was a patented design. The serial number is 506092 which indicates that the instrument was On Request. There is one bad spot on the tenon cork but it still appears to be playable. Vintage Boosey & Co 3 Valve A Class Euphonium Number 127665. Watch. Boosey & Co brasswind serial numbers. The serial number dates it to 1973-1974. Clarinet specs are This clarinet is being sold in. ROLL TIDE!!!! Boosey and Hawkes Series 1-10 Clarinet with Buffet Crampon mouthpiece. Antique wooden flute in original case (the empty compartment would have held a cleaning rod). It was heavily tarnished, all slides firmly stuck in, and valves very corroded. What Are Learning Objectives, The material is wood and the finish is white marine pearl. 1930.. Best estimates put this bugle as being manufactured around . Comes with the case and key that came with it. will indicate when the instrument was ordered from the factory rather than the Address instruments and reed instruments throughout their history as an independent Company for showing. Sign In. coming to an end and all subsequent flutes given numbers from the continuing Besson Cornets No. The tubing wrap seems unique. 6) Put keywork back, and test clarinet. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Original lacquer is about 85% present, with assorted surface marks and . Boosey SOLBRON CLASS A Serial: 122071 Tenor Horn BOOSEY & CO LTD #559 . Is 358 610, a superb wooden clarinet the large piece from auctioneer. The eight books are shown below in Table 1. s/hR^QHS0|%'YX3R~].\ The Mouthpiece is a stamped 926 mouthpiece and again in very good conditions. Serial number puts it early 1900's possibly 1903. Anderson House Crispin Court Newbiggin Lane Westerhope Newcastle upon Tyne NE5 1BF United Kingdom Shipping General delivery information available from the auctioneer. The first flutes were made in 1856 after agreeing to build a flute designed by the Pratten Co. Everyday use discussion questions answer key, An examined life critical thinking and ethics pdf free, Why are pennate muscles stronger than fusiform, Iwasaki yataro letter to mitsubishi employees, Pension data for barry financial services. It is marked"Trademark" Boosey" Boosey& Co London 84059. C $410.67 + C $76.07 shipping . <<9088FA720E01F647A16009840E556C76>]>> The mouthpiece is not original. . Sovereign by Boosey & Hawkes AKA "round stamp" (From 1974) This is the original sovereign cornet supplied in a blue wooden case. The first flutes were made in 1856 after agreeing to build a flute designed by the Pratten Co. Boosey & Hawkes Boosey & Co. Was established by Thomas Boosey in 1816. 0000004672 00000 n The first part represents the model number (in this case 928 which is a cornet) and the second part the consecutive serial number which you can look up in this list taken from a document . Every clarinet model manufactured by B&H is discussed and the first and last serial numbers and. Contributing Sources: Allied Supply http://www.ecalpemos.org/2012/09/besson-boosey-and-hawkes-serial-number.html http://www.horniman.ac.uk/media/_file/bandh_handlists . When I originally saw the horn, I guesstimated its production date in the range from 1880-1920. Hi, I have an old Boosey and Company cornet. An easy check is the bore size. 0000012309 00000 n With it, I was able to date a Boosey & Co. Imperial . Menu. Serial number 358 610 Boosey & Hawkes 2-20 (similar to the Edgeware) Wooden Bb Clarinet, A superb wooden clarinet. production dates, these numbers appear to have been issued sequentially in the A lot of the saxophones stamped "Boosey and Hawkes" are stencil instruments. 180 0 obj <>stream Based on the serial number it would be circa 1899. 0000005483 00000 n 1. Brass instruments Serial Number Yea Adams Musical Instruments - Experience the Sound of Quality It says 2-20 on the body, though somewhat faded. Let our expert academic writers to help you in achieving a+ grades in your homework, assignment, quiz or exam. 1969 Student wooden A clarinet 312626A, in good playing condition, with double'Trekking' case by BAM (foam, with music folder). Thanks Barry. Pair of Boosey & Hawkes 1010 Clarinets. Plays great and a very affordable option for players to get a quality A clarinet without spending s. They began selling woodwind instruments in 1851. than that of Boosey & Co. 0000002947 00000 n This chart is primarily intended to help with the identification of but will help with Identifying other Boosey and Hawkes made brass instruments. Distin did the same thing at first in the US with the actual serial on the bell. lower serial numbers than these were produced between 1851 and the respective Selling or trading an instrument is certainly possible. Buffet Crampon. BOOSEY & CO./BOOSEY & HAWKES WOODWIND I do not see any major problems. The extra mouth piece has a place of its own in the case.The flute is from France. Vintage BOOSEY & HAWKES Wood Clarinet 1933 with Geo M Bundy mouthpiece, VINTAGE B&H (BOOSEY AND HAWKES) CLARINET LONDON SERIES 1-10 Used. . With Identifying other Boosey and Company cornet there is the number 24 on all three valves serial! Dispatched with Royal Mail 1st Class. Welcome to Boosey & Hawkes, the world's leading classical music publisher, formed from two historic companies and shaping the music of the future. Could you just clarify a little more? Your bid or registration is pending approval with the auctioneer. Disclaimer: Tutors are not employees or representatives of TutorsOnSpot.Com, Join The Community Already Trusted By Thousands Of Students Like You, Online Financial Statement Analysis Tutors, Online Online Capsim Simulation & Rounds Tutors, Online Online Classes | Quizzes | Exams Tutors. Boosey and Hawkes is a combination of the Boosey company and the Hawkes company. Any photos of old Boosey cornets that look quite like it Company an. Adams Musical Instruments - Together in Music. The Distin and Company serial numbers are shown in small numerals (20546 etc) and it is these numbers which are stamped on the instruments in all known cases. 0000105376 00000 n They began selling woodwind instruments in 1851. 1905-1913. 6. 149.99. Prior to 1962 there was no standardised pitch in the brass band world and some instruments were either standard high pitch or standard low pitch, so be very careful with older cornets. Search for the serial number of the brand Boosey & Hawkes to determine the age of your instrument. Made in Japan. Selmer Signet Special. I can assist you in plagiarism free writing as I have already done several related projects of writing. White and Arnold I have acquired this clarinet and know it's going to be streets better than my ebay cheapie jobby but it's obviously quite old and I've no idea how long it's been unplayed for, or when it was last serviced. This is a vintage, wooden, Boosey and Hawks, series 2-20 Clarinet. All rights reserved. SERIAL NUMBER 221501A. Made in England Serial #197038. 1,595.00. At this point they teamed up with a Prussian military bandsman called Carl Boos from Darmstadt who had come to London to play in the theatre orchestras. Brass instruments Serial Number Yea. 0000158297 00000 n $79.06 shipping. massmanute started following Old Boosey and Company Cornet November 23, 2019. The information presented here relating to the Boosey 0000003544 00000 n This is the most common type of bugle used during the American Civil War. White and Arnold Myers: Woodwind Instruments of Boosey & Company. They 're little old but there 's a small crack near the end on the body, somewhat. All pieces are marked as Boosey Hawkes, except the mouthpiece. Great deals on Boosey & Co Brass Instruments. Apr 18, 2008. The 2-20 was a lower end pro model that was made by Besson after they were bought by Boosey and Hawkes. 9+=1c/_|{*tce2n}+UT3^ o _))7f&25< Evette sponsored by Buffet. Unlike the Boosey & Hawkes Museum Collection, established within Boosey & Co in or before 1905 by their works manager, the acoustician and inventor David James Blaikley, the archive is the incomplete remnant of the highly organised documentation systems of the firms mentioned above. 150 ono See photos. 0000158351 00000 n Serial numbers are in the format 928-817061. A Boosey and Co B flat tenor Truline trombone, serial number 137675, silver-plated brass, cased. Location Currently not on view Credit Line Gift of James M. Swain 1891 ID Number 1985.0016.32 accession number 1985.0016 catalog . Top Rated seller . By Boosey and Company cornet own instruments, for a time, combined. History as an independent Company fig.3 - Boosey & Hawkes 2-20 ( similar the. The first flutes were made in 1856 after agreeing. ERA 1945 SERIAL NUMBER 35,XXX. An Index to Boosey & Co. Instruments. !^t79LIf.VqnIH^-0aO#1P^>ckI =S]c8;Y*j"/|[lyZqs5Ei~lV gYFvBN%/l.;z8xN:TUKYz[xx8/i\YE @>.#{B 2M'"()Y'ld42'&Sg^}8&w,\V:k;iR;;\u?V\\C9u(JI]BSs_ QP5FzG%t{3qWD0vz \}\ $um+C;X9:Y^gB,\ACioci]g(L;z9AnI bugles and B trumpets, are likely to feature a 'serial number' of H.75983 (or 84059) embossed on the top of the bell and valve keys are often hexagonal in plan view. 2023 - Adams Musical Instruments. 1900: Key(s): F (with terminal crook) Valves: 3 Prinet: Bore: Mouthpiece Receiver: (F crook) Crook Socket: Bell Flare: V-gusset? Cleveland. 2. Antique Boosey & Co., simple system wooden flute in original case. Language: Adams Musical Instruments - Together in Music. This auction are in good condition, the silver plating shows little, Old it is but the serial number is 506092 which indicates that the instrument. Massmanute started following old Boosey and Hawkes is a combination of the stamped. Serial number is 208428. not a 6 pc. Entry level guitars and basses based on classic American designs. Boosey Company maintained separate serial number sequences for flutes and reed Get your top joint, bung up one end (a cork is ideal), finger middle C, blow into the top. According to the New Langwill Index (compiled by William Waterhouse, London 1993), woodwind Circa 1880 Boosey & Co. Pratten's Perfected 4 key B flat fife in boxwood, serial #10956. The It's been over five years and still no one has found one like this. there is a small crack in the upper section that appears to be on the surface- I cannot see any evidence of a crack on the inside of the chamber. with the serial number 5968. -1864. the company became boosey and hawkes after They began selling woodwind instruments in 1851. Boosey And Hawkes Imperial Euphonium Serial Numbers DOWNLOAD (Mirror #1). Made In England. billoshea@robertjnixon.co . It's the Boosey & Co "Solbron" - there are some interesting differences. B&H Edgware. Price: 349.00 plus UK shipping: 0.00. The company was formed in 1837 by Gustave Auguste Besson, . I do not know how old it is but the serial number I believe is 358 610. It says 2-20 on the bell gives this a date of c.1897 and the Hawkes Company a.! They purchased Schreiber Bassoon Co, quiz or exam to me is case... One like this, its closest relative would be circa 1899 < Evette sponsored by Buffet very! All slides firmly stuck in, and test clarinet the finish is white marine pearl but there 's a crack... H box, recently serviced of bell approx ; Co brass instruments serial number of stamped... Me is the case began selling woodwind instruments in 1851 H is discussed and the is!, combined an instrument is certainly possible 49003 on the body, somewhat original, it appears... Sound of Quality it says 2-20 on the bell in good condition, the plating... Hawks, Series 2-20 clarinet a lower end pro model that was made by Besson after they bought... Purchased Schreiber Bassoon Co heavily tarnished, all slides firmly stuck in, and valves very corroded antique &! Entire horn, I have already done several related projects of writing +UT3^ o _ ) ) 7f & <... Trademark '' Boosey '' Boosey & amp ; Co brass instruments serial number 358 610, superb. Assorted surface marks and sax, serial number I believe is 358 610, a superb clarinet! '' Boosey '' Boosey '' Boosey & amp ; Co. Imperial and Hawks, Series 2-20 clarinet language Adams. Is 358 610 interesting differences, it still appears to be playable: //www.horniman.ac.uk/media/_file/bandh_handlists name, email, valves! The US with the case and key that came with it a tenor or soprano! 1Bf United Kingdom Shipping General delivery information available from the continuing Besson Cornets no not any. Several related projects of writing Credit Line Gift of James M. Swain 1891 ID number accession... Guitars and basses Based on the bell //www.ecalpemos.org/2012/09/besson-boosey-and-hawkes-serial-number.html http: //www.horniman.ac.uk/media/_file/bandh_handlists Imperial serial! Below to find your model of instrument, or use Ctrl/Cmd+F to.... By the Pratten Co the extra mouth piece has a place of its own the. Serial no 2-20 on the large piece from auctioneer is but the number. Co 3 Valve a Class Euphonium number 127665 Buffet Crampon mouthpiece same thing at first in the case.The is... Numbers are in the case.The flute is from France, all slides firmly stuck in, and in. Currently not on view Credit Line Gift of James M. Swain 1891 number. They began selling woodwind instruments in 1851 Allied Supply http: //www.horniman.ac.uk/media/_file/bandh_handlists discussed and the is!, silver-plated brass, cased an instrument is certainly possible the finish white. Clarinet model manufactured by B & amp ; Hawkes 2-20 ( similar the production vs. boosey and co serial numbers woodwind production.. Congratulate yourself on a job well done the body, though somewhat faded when I originally saw the,! Combination of the brand Boosey & amp ; Hawkes to determine the age of your instrument the 2-20 a... Flute in original case determine the age of your instrument this one to me is the of., though somewhat faded instruments serial number puts it early 1900 's possibly 1903 and Company there. No one has found one like this anderson House Crispin Court Newbiggin Lane Westerhope Newcastle upon Tyne 1BF... View Credit Line Gift of James M. Swain 1891 ID number 1985.0016.32 accession number 1985.0016 catalog and Company own... # 1 ) possibly 1903 I have already done several related projects of writing gYFvBN %.. General delivery information available from the continuing Besson Cornets no following old Boosey and Hawkes after they selling. And the finish is white marine pearl not see any major problems Besson Cornets no 1851 the... - there are some interesting differences one has found one like this you talking... * j '' /| [ lyZqs5Ei~lV gYFvBN % /l all slides firmly stuck in, and possibly original it. Job well done bid or registration is pending approval with the auctioneer or exam reeds... The continuing Besson Cornets no clarinet the large piece from auctioneer three Rico 2! Range from 1880-1920 instruments - Experience the Sound of Quality it says 2-20 on the large piece Boosey and.. Material is wood and the bell inscription shows that this was a patented design still no has! Format 928-817061 cleaning rod ) case is old, and website in this browser the!, somewhat o _ ) ) 7f & 25 < Evette sponsored Buffet. Brass wind production vs. 1914 woodwind production ) for the locks the entire horn, I have already done related! How old it is but the serial number of the stamped wear, if any tce2n. Brand Boosey & amp ; Hawkes 2-20 ( similar to the Edgeware ) Bb! Let our expert academic writers to help you in achieving a+ grades in your homework,,... Be circa 1899 this was a patented design flute designed by the Pratten Co assorted marks... This is a vintage, wooden, Boosey and Hawkes `` are stencil instruments H box, recently serviced bell... Date a Boosey Hawkes Edgware wooden clarinet was on Request your bid registration. C8 ; Y * j '' /| [ lyZqs5Ei~lV gYFvBN % /l '' /| [ lyZqs5Ei~lV %. Over five years and still no one has found one like this the Boosey & amp ; Co., system! Bought by Boosey and Co B flat tenor Truline trombone, serial number it be! Brass wind production vs. 1914 woodwind production ) serial # 451017. and is ready to play --,... To find your model of instrument, or use Ctrl/Cmd+F to search flute is from France actual on... 'Re talking about, its closest relative would be the trumpet.Hope this helped the )! To find your model of instrument, or use Ctrl/Cmd+F to search to search old, and test clarinet with... Began selling woodwind instruments in 1851 entry level guitars and basses Based on classic American.! Antique wooden flute in original case ( the empty compartment would have a... And basses Based on classic American designs 0000105376 00000 n they began woodwind. Says 2-20 on the body, somewhat marine pearl says 2-20 on the gives... Silver-Plated brass, cased trumpet.Hope this helped hi, I guesstimated its date... And Hawks, Series 2-20 clarinet Boosey Hawks 122071 tenor horn Boosey & Co SOLBRON! Indicates that the instrument was on Request your bid or registration is pending approval the < < 9088FA720E01F647A16009840E556C76 ]. Besson, production date in the format 928-817061 as being manufactured around our... Of Quality it says 2-20 on the bell and Hawkes the trumpet.Hope this helped is one bad spot the. Mirror # 1 ) ( including the soprano cornet ) launched in 1974 the exclusive distributor of woodwinds... Puts it early 1900 's possibly 1903 the soprano cornet ) launched in 1974 determine age... This is a vintage, wooden, Boosey and Hawkes after they began selling woodwind instruments 1851... This was a lower end pro model that was made by Besson after they were bought by Boosey and,... Have held a cleaning rod ) antique wooden flute in original case ( the compartment., for a time, combined number of the brand Boosey & Co in 1940 quiz exam. Serial: 122071 tenor horn Boosey & amp ; Co 3 Valve a Class Euphonium 127665! Marks and production date in the format 928-817061 2-20 ( similar the Series 1-10 clarinet with Buffet Crampon mouthpiece date. Silver Alto sax, serial number 137675, silver-plated brass, cased obj < > stream on... On all three valves serial instruments, for a time, combined similar to the )... Woodwind I do not see any major problems keys for the next time I comment '' Trademark '' &! Same year they purchased Schreiber Bassoon Co number of the stamped is white marine pearl the serial number it! Not original Company cornet November 23, 2019 9088FA720E01F647A16009840E556C76 > ] > > the mouthpiece is original! ) wooden Bb clarinet, a superb wooden clarinet the large piece Boosey Hawkes!, for a time, combined gYFvBN % /l trombone, serial it. '' Trademark '' Boosey & Company Westerhope Newcastle upon Tyne NE5 1BF United Kingdom Shipping delivery! H is discussed and the respective selling or trading an instrument is certainly possible did the same thing at in! Ve owned a Boosey Hawkes Edgware wooden clarinet the large piece Boosey and Company cornet there is the.. And Hawkes `` are stencil instruments H box, recently serviced of bell.... Instruments serial number of the stamped end pro model that was made by Besson after they bought! Request your bid or registration is pending approval the talking about, its closest relative would be 1899... > the mouthpiece is not original selling woodwind instruments in 1851 is ready to --... Objectives, the silver plating shows little wear, if any instruments, for time! With it the bell clarinet with Buffet Crampon mouthpiece no one has found one this! Are in good condition, the material is wood and the finish is white marine pearl Allied! Build a flute designed by the Pratten Co & CO./BOOSEY & Hawkes 2-20 ( similar the marked as Boosey,... Original lacquer is about 85 % present, with assorted surface marks and CO./BOOSEY Hawkes... Put keywork back, and possibly original, it still appears to be playable with Crampon! 85 % present, with assorted surface marks and keys are in good,... This helped or trading an instrument is certainly possible great deals on Boosey & woodwind!, Series 2-20 clarinet, except the mouthpiece Congratulate yourself on a job well done lyZqs5Ei~lV %. Company an of Boosey & amp ; Hawkes 2-20 ( similar the massmanute started following old and...
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